Amsterdam, 18 January 2024
Willem Boone (WB): What was it like to play Mozart with the Concertgebouw Orchestra?
Emanuel Ax (EA): How shouId I put it? It’s like anything else with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, they are fabulous. I feel very lucky to be with them. It’s a long time that I have been coming. I played here in the early 80’s I think, a few times with Mr Haitink, and a few times with other conductors. Every member of the orchestra is a musician, they have imagination and they play with imagination.
WB: I ask because as you might know, the Dutch were pioneers in music making on period instruments. There were some famous names like Gustav Leonhardt, and Frans Bruggen was also one of them and the latter said that every note of Mozart by the Concertgebouw Orchestra was a lie…
EA: (laughs): I actually played with Frans Bruggen with his orchestra, a long time ago, but on a normal piano. It was actually the Mozarteum Orchestra in Salzburg. I think as with anything else in the world: things change and it’s fine to play original instruments, both on the piano and on strings and winds, but I don’t think we should be ashamed to play also this way. I did some recordings of Chopin music with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment on an Erard, which I really enjoyed doing, but I love the fact we can do both. I don’t think one has to exclude the other. Actually, Yo Yo Ma and I did some concerts playing the Beethoven Cello Sonatas and we did two concerts. In the first half, we played on an 1826 piano with a baroque set up and the other half was modern. The next day, we did the same.
WB: And did Yo Yo play on gut strings?
EA: Yes, he did, it was set up for the old way.
WB: And which experience did you like the best?
EA: We loved both, that’s the point! We told the audience that it was not a competition to decide which one they liked better. It just shows the range of possibilities.
WB: Did you start with the period instruments and then play on the modern ones?
EA: Yes, we did.
WB: I think that’s better than the other way around?
EA: Probably, because if you start with the big, modern instruments, it’s loud.
WB: Did the experience of Chopin on period instruments helped you on the Steinway too?
EA: I don’t know if it helped, it was just an interesting way to adjust. I wouldn’t say one helped the other so much, but it was fascinating. That’s all..
WB: I saw a list on Facebook the other day of the most played piano concertos of last year. I was actually shocked: even though there were beautiful pieces like the Beethoven 3, 4 and 5, Chopin’s Second, Tchaikovsky’s First, Grieg, Schumann, Ravel G major and Rach Second and Third, there were no concertos by Mozart!
EA: Interesting….
WB: I was wondering whether it’s difficult to programme Mozart?
EA: Not really, it’s actually very easy most of the time, because conductors love it, since they always do the big piece in the second half (laughs). It goes together with Bruckner or Mahler, the large symphonies. I think it’s quite common. I do a lot of Mozart, partly because I can’t play the Rachmaninov or Tchaikovsky concertos. So if I go to an orchestra, they usually let me play Mozart or Beethoven. I’m old now…
WB: But Mozart is difficult, isn’t it?
EA: Yes, very difficult! I don’t think I ever played a performance of a Mozart concerto where I thought: everything was correct. There are always details where you think: now, that could be better.
WB: Is that more so than with Brahms?
EA: Yes, I would say, more so than with Brahms, because there are more notes. You don’t have as much time to think. With Mozart, every tune has to be perfectly done and I never get it..
WB: What is your relationship with this G-major concerto (KV 453)?
EA: It’s actually the first Mozart concerto I ever played, so I’ve known it for a very long time. It doesn’t get any easier though!
WB: I spoke to a colleague of yours and he said that he disliked the beginning of the first movement. Anything that comes after it is fantastic, but he said the entrance of the piano is stupid.
EA: It’s very hard! I don’t know whether it is stupid, but I actually cheated a little bit. I played the first note with the left hand, because I am nervous of doing it either way.
WB: Does it go better then?
EA: It’s a little safer, when you sit and you wait and wait… (laughs). You have to be lucky and I was today!
WB: I heard you practise, half an hour before the performance. Why do you do that? Is it because you don’t feel ready?
EA: No, I’m always very nervous before playing, I’m always here two hours before and play slowly everything through.
WB: Doesn’t that make you even more nervous?
EA: It depends on the day: some days, yes, and some days, no.
WB: And I read that you do yoga too.
EA: I don’t, but I should do yoga. Maybe I said in earlier interviews that I should do it, but I don’t! I should try something….
WB: It doesn’t stop you from playing.
EA: Well, the other you get, the worse it gets! I think so..
WB: I saw you last Sunday at the recital of Dame Mitsuko Uchida. What is it like for you to sit in the audience when you listen to a colleague: are you just like me, a listener who sits back?
EA: Yes, I’m just like you, I sit back and enjoy.
WB: You’re not a colleague who does the same job…
EA: No, not really, of course, I know what is coming more or less, I’m aware of a lot of things that are happening. I enjoy concerts.
WB: When you listen, is it very difficult than when you play?
EA: Yes, especially here on the stage. It’s very clear and the piano is quite pointed. But when you are out there, it’s beautiful round, it’s a fabulous hall. The Bruckner sounded great yesterday.
WB: I spoke to Jean Philippe Collard and he said that it’s a mythical hall of course, but he said there a lot of colours in the sound, and as he put it, when you play two notes, they are already surrounded by a colourful bubble.
EA: Yes, I think this is a special place, along with Carnegie Hall. They are quite similar, wonderful for piano, for orchestras too.
WB: But he said he sometimes had trouble hearing the wind instruments?
EA: I don’t know, I think it’s more a question of what the conductor does.
WB: Regarding Mitsuko Uchida’s programme, I heard it a few times without an intermission, since these sonatas are not very long and very similar…
EA: I think each one is kind of a world, I think it’s fine that there was a pause. It’s almost better for the concentration to have a break between the first and the second sonata. Maybe, but it depends. I thought it was a beautiful recital, I enjoyed it so much.
WB: I think it’s such a spiritual journey that maybe it gets interrupted by an intermission, I would have loved to hear them without a break.
EA: People feel differently about it.
WB: Isn’t it difficult to get back and get focused again with an intermission?
EA: Not with Beethoven, I don’t think so. Beethoven grabs you, there’s no-one like him! I have heard these sonatas many times over many years. The amazing thing is how many different ways there are to make them sound. I remember hearing them when I was 19 years old, played by the young Pollini at the age of 29 or 30. That was a totally different and amazing experience. And I heard Serkin do them. He was very well known for his Beethoven. He was a great pianist, I heard his son Peter play all of these sonatas.
WB: Do you play them yourself?
EA: No, I don’t. I play a lot of the early ones.
WB: Are you intimidated by them?
EA: I don’t know. My teacher didn’t like them for whatever reason, so I didn’t learn them when I was young. Then everybody played them and I thought: maybe I should study opus 2 nr 2, all of his sonatas are great!
WB: What always strikes me with Beethoven, is that he didn’t write many beautiful melodies, but what he made out of them is so special!
EA: Yes, whatever he did, I think he understood time better than any other composer. Everything he did was never too long or too short. You feel it is just right. What can you say? After Beethoven, there haven’t been any musicians who weren’t somehow influenced by him, even if they hated him, but it was thre. Ravel hated Beethoven , but he knew his music.
WB: You combined Beethoven and Schoenberg in your last recital. Was that because they represent the first and the second Viennese school?
EA: In a way, but also because I wanted to play Schoenberg. It was his 150th anniversary of his birth. If you play Schoenberg, you should play something popular that goes with it…
WB: Although the pieces you played weren’t among the most difficult to listen to?
EA: I think the Suite is not easy to listen to, opus 11 is so romantic.
WB: The Suite is still modern, even a hundred years later!
EA: It is like the Rite of Spring, it’s still modern, even now.
WB: You played that recital on the new Steinway grand piano, didn’t you? You said it was ‘incredible and had personality, you wanted to give it a name.’ How do you perceive a piano’s character?
EA: It’s not a specific character, it’s just when you play a piano and you say: this has range, it speaks to you, it’s not neutral and it’s not too beautiful in one way.
WB: Was it the same piano as the one you played on tonight?
EA: Yes, it was the same instrument.
WB: That’s interesting. I thought the sound was a little neutral sometimes.
EA: Today?
WB: Yes, I thought so.
EA: I don’t know.
WB: You quoted Bernstein regarding Schoenberg: ‘It’s Brahms with the wrong notes.’ What do you like so much about Schoenberg?
EA: I think it’s very involving and powerful. What can I say? It’s very strong.
WB: You play his Piano Concerto too?
EA: I do, yes.
WB: It’s not an easy piece either…
EA: No, it isn’t, but I like it. I recorded it.
WB: I know you play a lot of recitals and orchestral concerts and yet, if I think of you, I think of you as a chamber musician
EA: Yes, probably, because I have done so much with Yo Yo Ma.
WB: Does it bother you if people mainly see you as a chamber musician?
EA: No, as long as I am playing, it’s fine. You know, the best part of my life in a way is playing with Yo Yo Ma.
WB: How long have you known him?
EA: 53 years! It’s like an old marriage, we really like eachother. He is such a great artist!
WB: Wow! I do amateur acting, just for fun and I worked with a producer a few times and he sometimes used music during rehearsals. I think blind listening is sometimes the best way to listen to artists. He played cello music a few times, I didn’t know who it was and was really impressed and all the time it was him. I think when you‘re surprised a few times by the same artist, then they are really good. The same happened with the German singer, Hans Hotter.
EA: So, I better think about heading off. forgive me!